Author Archives: Rose Fox

About Rose Fox

I'm the science fiction/fantasy/horror and romance/erotica reviews editor for Publishers Weekly.

Mourning Iain M. Banks

Rose Fox -- June 10th, 2013

The death of Iain M. Banks, just a couple of months after he announced his cancer diagnosis, has been reverberating through my literary community. Banks was well known and respected for his mainstream novels (written as Iain Banks) and mind-expanding science fiction, and all the personal remembrances of him describe a generous, funny, upright fellow. I’m very sad I never got the chance to meet him.

Last September, PW ran a brief Q&A that Joe Sanders conducted with Banks, which you can read here. As often happens, there were more Qs and As than we could fit in the magazine; but blogs have no such constraints, so here are the ones that didn’t make it to publication.

Joe Sanders: It sometimes seems that the Culture’s real citizens are the Minds (and Ships, Drones, etc.)—since humans and other flesh-mortals are too slow and vulnerable to participate usefully. What’s the relationship of mechanical and meat?

Iain M. Banks: We are their pets. Or their passengers. Or maybe their parasites; hard to be sure. Maybe (d)—all of the above. The trouble with the machines from their own point of view is that they’re too perfect, too self-sufficient, too self-consciously pristine; we—with all our weaknesses, idiocies, dramas, dreams and vulnerabilities—and our need to be protected, from ourselves as much as from anybody or anything else—provide them with a reason to keep real; we are their project, their hobby. They need us. Though I am thinking that part of the business of the next Culture novel will take place in a part of the civilisation where the humans are running things themselves and the AIs keep away, just to take a look at how that might work. We’ll see.

JS: Would you like to live in the Culture?

IMB: Good grief, yes! I don’t know what sort of messed-up sadomasochist you’d have to be not to want to live in the Culture!

JS: What would readers have to give up if they wanted to join? Do you think that would be as serious as entering the Sublime?

IMB: Your religion and your money. Nah, just kidding. It’s the Culture; you can believe what you damn well please, and while they might be baffled by a collection of billions of rather boringly similar scraps of paper, that would be indulged like every other eccentricity. So, ‘Nothing’ is the real answer. Though, on a civilizational/ethical level we’re—ahem—probably not quite ready to join yet. And besides, the Culture is slightly paranoid about looking too imperialist, so would generally encourage people to go their own way and find their own path into the future rather than just grab hold of the Culture’s trailing edges and surf along behind it. Plus it’s profoundly non-coercive and non-prescriptive anyway; you can always ‘leave’ again with no penalty or hard feelings (and you never really ‘join’ in any formal, ceremonial sense; you just start behaving like them—that’s pretty much all it takes). Subliming is a rather more profound and one-way process and very much not to be taken lightly. Lightly, on the other hand, is probably the only way to take the Culture.

JS: Why so many names that stretch the human mouth and vocal cords?

IMB: Self-indulgence, frankly (always a risky route for an author to take). There are two naming regimes in the books; one is the crazily long names for Culture people—names which act as their address should they happen to stay where they’re born—and the ship names. The human names were kind of a rejection of the idea around when I was starting to think about this sort of stuff that in the future we’d all have numbers—and probably be popping a pill instead of eating a meal, and so on. I just took against this sort of thing and went wildly in the other direction, deciding no, we’d all have very long, meaning-rich names—and we’d eat extremely well, thank you. It was also done to try and hint at the classless but effortlessly opulent nature of life in the Culture; the inhabitants all live in the absolute lap of luxury and so giving them names like aristocrats just seemed fitting. With the ship names, I was reacting against the implicit assumption that, post-artificial intelligence, we’d have much meaningful control over the kind of AI you’d have to put in a starship to make it work right; they’d be their own creatures, we would not get to captain them and they would choose their own names, names that would not be the earnest, taking-yourself-a-bit-too-seriously names we tend to give capital ships (whether maritime or space). In all honesty, I may have taken this too far, but, what the hey; taking things too far is partly what SF is about.

Reading Banks’s plans for the next Culture novel is a bit heartwrenching. I wish he could have gotten many, many more years in which to “take things too far”.

Night Shade’s Final Chapter

Rose Fox -- April 9th, 2013

Last week PW covered the news that Night Shade Books contracts with authors were up for sale. Skyhorse and Start Publishing offered to take over print and digital contracts, respectively. Many people were skeptical of the deal as originally offered (see Tobias Buckell’s excellent and thorough roundup of links). Skyhorse and Start revised it, and response to the revision has generally been positive, including from SFWA (which has been criticized heavily for its secrecy around Night Shade–related matters) and critics of the original deal, such as agent Joshua Bilmes. So it looks much more likely that the sale will go through, which at least broadly takes care of Night Shade’s back payments to authors.

However, authors aren’t the only people who would really like to see some of the money that Night Shade owes. In a blog post comment, artist Todd Lockwood wrote:

Not only authors were harmed by their business practices.

I love Jeremy Lassen and really wanted Nightshade to succeed. I have a soft place in my head for underdogs. I cut my rates in order to paint covers for them. It took over a year and a half to be paid for one. Another dribbled in in bits, the last check bounced, and I have never received full payment. I understand that other cover artists were never paid at all. I would be surprised if Skyhorse & al felt any need to make those repairs, but I’d love to know what, if any, plans were made in that regard…?

And editor Marty Halpern emailed me to add:

There has been absolutely no mention, nor commitment made, to all the artists, designers, editors (including myself), and others who are owed tens of thousands of dollars — and seem to have been forgotten in all this “discussion” over the authors’ deal.

…now that NS is essentially closed and in “escrow” for this potential sale, the money that is owed to me (for invoices dating back to October of last year) — and all the other production people — may never get paid.

There would be no books to speak of if there weren’t editors, artists, and designers willing to work continuously for Night Shade for just the promise of pay. We are a dedicated lot and deserve to have our story told — and responded to — as well.

I’ve reached out to Night Shade to ask whether the revised Skyhorse/Start deal going through would make it possible for Night Shade to make payment to freelancers. If they reply, I’ll revise this post to include their comment. EDIT: NSB co-owner Jeremy Lassen wrote back declining to comment on this matter.

I also called up Jarred Weisfeld at Start Publishing to ask whether Start and Skyhorse would be taking on the responsibility of paying Night Shade’s non-author creditors. He told me, “Night Shade is responsible for paying those debts, but all creditors of Night Shade will be taken care of if the sale goes through, and freelancers who are owed money would be considered creditors. Nobody’s going to be left high and dry. The deal is contingent on those individuals getting paid.” So that’s a sign of some hope for Lockwood, Halpern, and everyone else in their shoes. EDIT: Weisfeld called me back to clarify that if the deal goes through, settlements for creditors will likely be in the 30%–50% range. Not ideal, obviously, but better than zero.

Weisfeld sounded like he’s been talking for a week straight, which is probably not far from the truth. Before we got off the phone, I offered him a sincere welcome to the genre publishing community; for better or worse, he’s going to be one of us now, especially if Start and Skyhorse do end up not only taking over Night Shade’s contracts but publishing 90 new titles under the Night Shade name over the next few years. It will be very interesting to see how that changes the local landscape. In the meantime, as a frequent freelancer myself, I really hope that all of Night Shade’s creditors do get paid one way or another.

Making the Grade

Rose Fox -- March 25th, 2013

hostThis year’s shortlist for the Aurealis Awards, Australia’s top awards for science fiction and fantasy, has a surprise in the science fiction novel category: a self-published book, And All the Stars by Andrea K Höst. I believe this is a first for major SF/F awards (unless you count the Andre Norton Award as part of the Nebulas, in which case precedent was set by Catherynne M. Valente’s The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairyland in a Ship of Her Own Making). It’s certainly a sharp retort to people who sneer at self-published books as being universally terrible. I expect to see more self-published books showing up on various award shortlists in the next few years as self-publishing authors get more sophisticated and increase their reach.

PW Best Books 2012: The Weird, edited by Ann and Jeff VanderMeer

Rose Fox -- November 2nd, 2012

Leading up to the November 5th publication of PW’s Best Books of 2012, our reviews editors are blogging about some of their favorites from our top 100. Here’s the latest post:

While Hurricane Sandy had us trapped in the house, my girlfriend decided it was a good time to sort our extensive collection of SF, fantasy, and horror anthologies. As we separated year’s-best anthologies from award-winner anthologies and single-author collections from themed collections, I was struck by how many of these compilations treat the past as closed off in some way, disconnected from the present. This approach makes sense when writing about the best stories (or books) published in a single year, or the greatest hits of an author who’s no longer alive, but efforts to compile the best examples of a genre or subgenre always fall short, because genres don’t end the way years and lives do. If I published The All-Time Greatest Stories Where a Dog Wears a Steampunk Space Suit in 2013, you can be sure that someone would come along in 2014 and write an absolutely superb dog-in-steampunk-space-suit story. For a living, evolving genre, there really is no “All-Time Greatest”; there’s only “the story so far.”

With The Weird, the VanderMeers–editors of books (The New Weird) and magazines (especially Ann’s widely celebrated tenure at Weird Tales)–have taken pains to connect the past, present, and future of weird fiction. The chronological ordering of the 110 stories and novel excerpts, written between 1908 and 2010, illustrates the evolution of this fascinatingly nebulous genre. The editors don’t just acknowledge that weird fiction is alive and changing: they celebrate its vigor and chart its growth as proudly as parents marking a child’s height on the wall. It’s no stretch for readers to wonder what developments are ahead, and depending on how life extension technology develops, I fully expect to see the VanderMeers publish The Weird II in 2114.

This compendium isn’t just of historical interest, of course; it’s also thoroughly enjoyable to read. Each piece is a gem that stands fully on its own. Surprisingly few of the older inclusions contain cringeworthy dated attitudes, and the editors have deliberately looked outside the U.S. and England for works that many Western readers would never otherwise encounter. These weird stories succeed as weird stories, astonishing and unsettling at every turn.

“Weird fiction” is a deliberately broad term. The Weird is labeled “A Compendium of Strange and Dark Stories,” which doesn’t narrow it down much. PW‘s review says the book “is a deeply affectionate and respectful history of speculative fiction’s blurry edges.” Michael Moorcock’s “foreweird” declares that weirdness includes “pretty much anything from absurdism to horror, even occasionally social realism.” The VanderMeers’ introduction uses terms like “indefinable and perhaps maddeningly unreachable” and “unease and the temporary abolition of the rational.” This lack of definition is itself unsettling within speculative fiction fandom, where taxonomic niggling is the national sport. But rigid definitions, like retrospectives, require finitude–and weird fiction, like Frankenstein’s monster, is very much alive.

 

PW Best Books 2011: Unpossible by Daryl Gregory

Rose Fox -- October 27th, 2011

Leading up to the November 7th publication of PW’s Best Books of 2011, our reviews editors are blogging about some of their favorites from our top 100.  Here’s the latest post:

Earlier this week, I put up a post at Genreville talking about strange books, unclassifiable books, books that blow off the top of your head. As I was writing it, I was thinking of (among other authors) Daryl Gregory, whose work unfailingly fits into this uncategorizable category. If you want to try to slap a label on his books, you can call them fantasy, or horror (as we did with his 2009 novel, The Devil’s Alphabet, when putting it on that year’s Best Books shortlist), or dark fantasy, or slipstream, or New Weird; but sooner or later all those labels will fall off, or perhaps peel themselves off and skitter away into the shadows, and you’ll be left only with a deep uneasy sense that maybe the world really is as he describes it, an amalgamation of the astonishingly glorious and the quietly terrible, and what we call reality is only a comforting illusion.

UNPOSSIBLE cover artUnpossible is Gregory’s first collection. The stories are all quite short, with no time wasted on lumpy exposition or treacly morals, but each one carries all the grim weight and peculiar beauty of his novels, simmered down to a deceptively sweet syrup that goes down easy and then twists in your guts. They poke at complex, difficult notions, not so much trying to answer questions as trying to figure out how to begin asking them. In “Second Person, Present Tense,” “Dead Horse Point,” and “Damascus,” he combs through the mysterious and often troubling links between neurology and concepts of selfhood, free will, and religious belief. “The Illustrated Biography of Lord Grimm” and “Message from the Bubblegum Factory” ruthlessly deconstruct the American fascination and identification with superheroes, revealing our costumed idols as overgrown children whose destructive rampages are abusive and fascistic. These are not comfortable stories, which is a good part of what makes them worth reading.

To make the medicine go down, Gregory builds sympathetic and interesting characters out of a few well-placed sentences, as in this opening scene from the title story:

Two in the morning and he’s stumbling around in the attic, lost in horizontal archaeology: the further he goes, the older the artifacts become…. The territory ahead is littered with the remains of his youth, the evidence of his life before he brought his wife and son to this house. Stacks of hardcover books, boxes of dusty-framed elementary school pictures—and toys. So many toys. Once upon a time he was the boy who didn’t like to go outside, the boy who never wanted to leave his room. The Boy Who Always Said No.

Or this portrait of Eddie, a superhero’s disillusioned sidekick, from “Message from the Bubblegum Factory”:

“When I was hanging out with Soliton and the Protectors, I must have been kidnapped once a month. Held hostage, used as bait, snared in death traps. They especially liked to dangle me.”

“What?”

“Over tubs of acid, piranhas, lava pits, you name it—villains are very big on dangling. Twenty years of this, ever since I was a kid. You wouldn’t believe the number of times I’ve been shot at, blown up, tossed into rivers, knifed, pummeled, thrown off buildings and bridges—”

…I lean forward, and the guard puts a hand on my chest. I ignore him. “See, here’s the thing. I should be dead a hundred times over. But the rules of the universe don’t allow it. I’m not bragging—that just seems to be the way it works.”

This is a collection to linger over, or to set aside for as long as you can manage (a day, maybe two) and then compulsively return to. Reading it all at once leaves you feeling like poor Eddie after a few rounds with the villain du jour. But there’s nothing like Gregory’s super-powered punches to knock you out of your comfortable literary rut and leave you staggering, dazed, through an extraordinary new landscape that was somehow there all along.

Romance Novels for Valentine’s Day

Rose Fox -- February 14th, 2011

Photo credit: Wewiorka Wagner.

Looking for a V-Day read? Pick up a romance novel. Longtime romance fans can confirm the power these books have to put you in the romantic mood or soothe a broken heart. If you’re new to the genre, you may be pleasantly surprised to find that modern-day romances are feminist, boundary-busting, action-packed novels with many of the elements that appeal in other genres of fiction. Here’s a helpful guide to get you started finding some romance novels that will make your heart go pitter-pat.

If you like literary fiction or “chick lit,” you’ll find that only the thinnest of lines separates those genres from the contemporary romance. Indeed, many popular authors cross that line with impunity. Dip your toe in with Danielle Steel’s Legacy, Kim Gruenenfelder’s There’s Cake in My Future, or Anjali Banerjee’s Haunting Jasmine, and then take the plunge with Susan Fox’s His, Unexpectedly, Cheris Hodges’s His Sexy Bad Habit, or Fiona Zedde’s Dangerous Pleasures.

If you like history or historical fiction, the obvious place to turn is the historical romance. Depending on what times and places catch your fancy, you could start with Victoria Alexander’s The Perfect Mistress (Regency England), Elizabeth Hoyt’s Wicked Intentions (Victorian England), Mary Wine’s Improper Seduction (16th-century Scottish Highlands), Jo Goodman’s Marry Me (America’s Old West), or Jeannie Lin’s Butterfly Swords (Tang Dynasty China). Those who prefer their bodices unripped may want to try the numerous spin-offs of Jane Austen’s work, such as Mary Lydon Simonsen’s The Perfect Bride for Mr Darcy. These novels are often–though not always–quite decorous.

If you like mystery and suspense, then romantic suspense is for you. Stephanie Tyler’s Lie with Me is a straight-up black ops adventure, while Allison Brennan’s Love Me to Death and Sharon Sala’s Blood Stains are gritty police procedurals. If you like a bit of futuristic speculation in your suspense, check out Laura Griffin’s Untraceable.

If you like fantasy and science fiction, you’ve certainly already heard of paranormal romance, but you may not know just how broad that genre is. It encompasses lighthearted contemporary-with-magic tales like Judi Fennell’s I Dream of Genies and Ashlyn Chase’s Strange Neighbors, supernatural shoot-’em-ups like Stephanie Rowe’s Kiss at your Own Risk, and paranormal mysteries like Jayne Anne Krentz’s In Too Deep and Cynthia Eden’s I’ll Be Slaying You. If you’re weary of werewolves and vampires, expand your world with the angels and demons of Kristina Douglas’s Raziel, or the ex-dragon hero of Janet Chapman’s Dragon Warrior. And there’s plenty of SF romance out there: try Sara Creasy’s Song of Scarabaeus or Karen Kelley’s Princes of Symtaria series.

If you’re too shy or wary to pick up a romance for yourself, consider getting one for someone you love as a Valentine’s Day gift. Then you can borrow it or sneak a glimpse over their shoulder, and leave your plausible deniability intact. Be warned, though, that these books can be addictive, and few months from now you may be surprised to find yourself with a newfound passion for romance!

Galley of the Day: Akata Witch by Nnedi Okorafor

Rose Fox -- November 10th, 2010

Having just put Nnedi Okorafor’s adult novel Who Fears Death on my 2010 best SF/fantasy/horror list, I was delighted when she sent me an advance copy of her forthcoming YA title, Akata Witch (Viking, April 2011). Set in approximately present-day Nigeria, the story follows four teenagers as they learn to control their magical powers and face down an evil sorcerer who’s trying to summon up a long-banished spirit of destruction.

Sunny Nwazue spent the first several years of her life in the United States before her Igbo parents moved back to Nigeria. Now she speaks fluent Igbo, but she’s still sneered at as an akata, a dirty foreigner. To make matters worse, she’s an albino, so kids tease her about being white. (To Okorafor’s credit, there are no namby-pamby “even if she were white that would be okay” lessons to be found here.) Sunny’s viewpoint lets Okorafor describe sights that will be unfamiliar to American readers without ever exoticizing them:

[The Abuja Market] was the first African market she had visited, a few months after her family had returned to Nigeria when they’d stayed with her aunt. Talk about culture shock! The American supermarkets were always neat, the prices rigid, everything so sterile. The Abuja Market in particular was ripe, unpredictable, and loud. She’d been overwhelmed by what the market sold, and how the vendors sold it. Now it was just a market.

Keep an eye out for our review.

Webcomic Fans Boost Self-Published Book to Amazon’s #1 Spot

Rose Fox -- October 27th, 2010

Yesterday was MOD-Day: the release day for Machine of Death, a collaboration among several popular webcomic artist/writers and their fans. The idea started with a Dinosaur Comic by Ryan North:

North’s message board rapidly filled up with ideas for “machine of death” stories. North soon teamed up with David Malki ! (of Wondermark) and Matthew Bennardo to make the book a reality. They solicited material, winnowed the submissions down, found other artists to illustrate several of the stories, and started to shop the manuscript around. That was when the problems started:

Stephen King isn’t in this book. Neither is Dave Eggers or Neil Gaiman or Nick Hornby. Nobody would buy this little book full of stories from nobody famous, we were told. We talked with six different agents who fell in love with this book; one even fell deeply in love and tried her hardest to sell it to anybody who would listen. One editor at a publishing house told us “Let me be blunt: I love this premise; I love this project; I want to read this book [...] the sample stories included in the proposal are really very strong, and if they’re all that good, then this is a genre anthology of high literary quality.”

But it was 2008, 2009. “The economy,” we were told. “And it’s an anthology.”

…We didn’t want to sell ebook rights; we wanted to release the ebook for free as a PDF. We didn’t want to sell audio rights; we wanted to record the audiobook ourselves, and release it for free as a podcast. Movie rights remain with the authors — if you love one of the stories in this book and want to make a blockbuster film from it, contact the author and give them the money. We’re not in the middle.

And we live on the internet enough that we knew we could sell this book.

So October 26th was declared MOD-Day, and a plan was formed: to get the book into Amazon’s #1 bestseller spot for just one day, and prove that a bunch of indie misfits could make a successful book.

This plan worked so spectacularly that as of this writing, mid-day on October 27th, the book is still in Amazon’s #1 bestseller spot, along with being #1 in science fiction anthologies and #2 in literature and fiction (#1 is John Grisham’s The Confession). Malki ! calls this “so far beyond amazing that I don’t have words for it. It is incredimazing. It is trementacular. It is absocrazifreakiperfluously staggerblasticating.”

Continue reading

PW Best Books 2010: The Heir

Rose Fox -- October 27th, 2010

The HeirI’ve been editing romance reviews at PW for nearly three years now, which means I’ve read a whole lot of historical romance novels. I’ve become very familiar with the standard set-ups, the faux-period language, the spunky heroines and brooding heroes, and the authors’ struggles to make racist, classist, sexist history interesting and appealing to modern readers.

In some ways, Grace Burrowes’s debut novel, The Heir, buys into these conventions: the villains are utterly villainous, the hero (Gayle Windham, earl of Westhaven) is rebelling against his parents’ longing for him to marry, the heroine (Gayle’s housekeeper, Anna Seaton) is sharply intelligent and elegantly feminine. What set it apart–and what will get me to reread it, though my reading time is so limited that I almost never reread anything anymore–are the language and the connections between the characters.

It helps that the book is 480 pages long, while most mass market romances are in the 320-page range. Rather than filling the space with plot twists, Burrowes develops an astounding variety of relationships. Gayle’s interactions with his parents and brothers (one legitimate, one not, and two recently deceased–including the older brother who was supposed to inherit the title that Gayle is now saddled with) include affectionate gibes, occasional out-and-out fights, and heartwarming kindness when it matters most. Much of Anna’s behavior is motivated by a deep and protective love for her deaf-mute sister and doting grandparents. And most unexpected and charming is the snarky friendship that Gayle shares with his ex-fiancée and her husband, on whose hospitality he must unexpectedly rely when he falls ill while traveling:

[Viscount Amery] surveyed the man dripping on his couch. “Westhaven?”

“Amery?”

The earl’s voice was a croak, but one that conveyed a spark of pride.

“If you insist on attempting to travel on in your condition,” Amery said, “I will send a note forthwith to your father, and tattle on you. I will also hold you up to my daughter as a bad example, and worse, my viscountess will worry. As she is the sole sustenance of my heir, I am loathe to worry her, do I make myself clear?”

[The viscountess adds,] “Douglas, you can’t let him travel like this.”

“Using the third person,” the earl rasped from the couch, “when a man is present and conscious, is rude and irritating.”

“But fun,” Amery said.

It’s such a joy to find dialogue like this in a historical novel: not at all an Austen knock-off but also at least relatively true to its ostensible time and place, and sounding like it’s spoken by real people who have real history together and don’t feel any need to recap what everyone knows already. Even with an extra 160 pages to fill, Burrowes knows what to leave out.

The deft use of language is especially impressive in a debut. I look forward to seeing what else Burrowes has up her elegant muslin sleeve.

Dorchester: Resorting to Dirty Deeds?

Rose Fox -- October 20th, 2010

As previously noted in PW and on PWxyz, Dorchester Publishing is mid-reorganization, having dumped its mass market line and switched to an e-book/POD model. Now authors are starting to complain that Dorchester is still distributing e-books for which rights have reverted to the authors. As reported on Smart Bitches, Trashy Books:

I thought the Dorchester drama was, for the most part, over – until I received an email in my inbox from author Jana DeLeon.

DeLeon received the rights to her work from Dorchester on 15 September 2010. She even sent me a PDF of the rights reversion in case I doubted her story. She hasn’t been paid, nor has she received royalty statements in months, but now she has a bigger problem.

Over a month later, her digital books are still on sale pretty much everywhere….

Her books, including “Showdown in Mudbug,” are online at Amazon.com, and there’s a paper copy available, too.  Barnes & Noble also has her books for sale for the Nook, and independent retailer All Romance also has them listed for sale.

Why? Short answer: Dorchester, despite being contacted by DeLeon and her agent, Kristin Nelson, hasn’t stopped their digital distributor from selling them…. Today is 20 October 2010 – and DeLeon’s books are still on sale.

But wait, there’s more – DeLeon put me in touch with Leslie Langtry, another Dorchester author.

Langtry’s rights were also returned from Dorchester, and her digital books are still for sale at Amazon and other digital vendors. But Langtry finds herself in an even more uncomfortable situation: after her rights were reverted, her book Guns Will Keep Us Together was offered as a free digital download for Kindle.

The post includes various emails from both authors saying that attempts to contact Amazon and B&N’s legal departments have been met with silence, which is quite troubling; isn’t this sort of thing what legal departments are for? Readers of SBTB note that Dorchester has also made DeLeon’s book available as an iPad app. Some readers suggested that the authors put up Paypal buttons and encourage donations from readers who downloaded the books, but that doesn’t seem like a sustainable solution.

A call to Dorchester’s editorial office seeking comment was met only with hold music: “Everybody Wants to Rule the World.” So glad we almost made it, so sad they had to fade it…